Wasp Moth from Mexico

Isanthrene crabroniformis
Location:  Colima, Mexico
Wednesday, December 14, 2011 11:32 AM
i gave the website form another try and let it work for 5 minutes or so with no luck.
my message is:  Re Isanthrene moth sp.
hello there, here is what i’ve narrowed down to be an Isanthrene moth but would like to know the species.  according to zipcodezoo, there are 53 species similar to Isanthrene crabroniformis, one of which is Isanthrene colimae which i’m thinking it may be (because i live in colima) but cannot find images or descriptions for I. colimae.  what do you think? thank you, beverly
geographical location is colima, mexico elev 545m.
thank you, beverly

Wasp Moth

i’m really not going to be a pest daniel but here is another image view of isanthrene sp. showing all black legs (as opposed to black and red or only red).  i figure if zipcodezoo knows that I.colimae is similar to I.crabroniformis, there must be an image or description of I.colimae
somewhere.  i looked at maybe 10 different sites and did not find it.  by the way, i estimate the body length (not including the antennae) to be between 4 – 5 cm long.  regards, beverly
thank you daniel…i understand there are millions of bugs and only three of you so no need to be sorry and i appreciate you being there and doing what you are doing, beverly

Wasp Moth

Hi Beverly,
Thanks for your persistence in getting these images to us.  We haven’t the time to substantiate the identification at the moment.  It is final examination period and our schedules are filled, but we are posting and we hope to get Julian Donahue’s opinion on the species.  We have photos of
Isanthrene crabroniformis in our archives.  The leg coloration might indicate a different species.

Thank you, Daniel, and good luck with finals.  I’ve looked at the Isanthrene crabroniformis images at your website and thought that my bug must be a similar but different species.  I am not as familiar with the habits of moths as I am with butterflies, for example, their migratory patterns and how far they are likely to stray from a range.  I not sure if I remember correctly the general reported range of I. crabroniformis but I think the images I’ve seen of it are in the areas of Costa Rica/Guatamala.  I would be most interested and appreciative of any information you might come up with as your time permits. In the meantime I will pursue possible information sources here in Mexico’s universities but that will have to wait until after the holidays (people take their holidays very seriously here 🙂

Hi again Beverly,
Seems you were right about the legs.  See Julian Donahue’s response.

Julian Donahue responds
Not I. crabroniformis (which has red legs), but most likely Isanthrene pyrocera Hampson, 1898, described from Mexico.
Another species. I. colimae, was described from (wait for it……) Colima; most likely it is figured in Seitz, Macrolepidoptera of the World, but I don’t have that at hand.

Funny Daniel…both of the images I sent to you are in Google images but described as I. crabroniformis and Julian D. says that it is not I.crabroniformis…the images were submitted by your website and I don’t mind at all, but shouldn’t they be identified as I. species or I. pyrocera or colimae?  I like that the images are out there for people to see (and maybe comment on) but we shouldn’t send images that are incorrectly identified should we?  can this be corrected?  Thank you, Beverly

Hi Beverly,
This recent email has us confused.  Please clarify what you mean that the images you sent are in Google images.  We were under the assumption that you took the photos.  When we received your original email, we titled the images as I. crabroniformis, which is incorrect unless Julian, an expert in Arctiids, is mistaken. 

Hi Daniel…well, if you google I.pyocera or I. colimae and opt for “images”  the images i sent to you will appear as having been sent by whatsthatbug.com and they will be labeled as l. crabroniformis as they are labeled on your website (as least the last time i looked).  i don’t know how all of this works, but google images must take the subject line of the emails i sent to you and match it with the photo.  this would explain why there are so many outrageous errors in the google images database.  i don’t know.  i tried to correct this at “google images”, but there was no option for corrections…only options relating to reporting “obscene material”.  i most certainly did take the photos and sent them to you via email and i guess google automatically does the rest if you are not aware of sending the images to google.  either way, it is not a copyright problem, as far as i am concerned you can use the images as you like.  what is a bit disturbing is that google must somehow take the images from your website, rather than your website initiating the use of your website content, which is resulting in erroneous information.  it is the erroneous information that bugs (sorry) me.
are the images still titled as I.crabroniformis on your website as they were earlier today?  i’ll take a look.
yes, that is my point exactly.  the images are not correctly identified per Julian’s information (either on your website or in google images) and i have confidence in the information he provided (i.e. I.pyrocera or I. colimae).  certainly, after looking at the prior images of I.crabroniformis posted to your site, i learned (prior to sending my images to your site) that my bug is not I. crabroniformis but one of the 53 related species as listed at the zipcodezoo website.  i do not in the least believe that Julian is mistaken.
i hope this is clear and if not, please let me know.  if not, simply google I.pyrocera (option, images) and take a look at what you find.  i had always assumed that people (or photo owners) submitted images for posting on google, but evidently that assumption is not correct and google simply helps itself and does a very bad job of it.
I will do my best to clarify whatever questions you have.  what is important to me is that the images be correctly identified (to the entire world) per that provided by Julian Donahue.  regards, Beverly

Thanks for the clarification Beverly.  The google images search is most likely because I retitled your images as Isanthrene crabroniformis when I posted them to What’s That Bug? originally.  To go back and rename them would require reposting, which we don’t believe warrants the effort since it changes nothing on our own site and would only change matters on the search engines which you have already indicated are often inaccurate.  

Karl provides a similar explanation
Hi Daniel:
When you do a Google Images search for Isanthrene crabroniformis Beverly’s photos pop up with your site and her original name given to the photo. If you click on it it does take you to WTB and her post with all the correct information. I believe she is just concerned that the image that appears in Google Images is still tagged with the wrong name. To correct this you would have to change the names on the posted photos. I hope this helps, but perhaps I have confused things more.  Karl

Thanks Daniel.  I’m okay with this.  I think if people are interested, they will click on the image and be directed to your site and the conversations.  Might be something to keep in mind for the future though.  Regards, Beverly

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