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Ailanthus Webworm Moth identification request spawns homework controversy

UPDATE:  We apologize
Dear Kim,
We apologize for getting off on the wrong foot with you, and we confess that we really
did enjoy the verbal sparring just a little too much to sever our ties with you forever.  We fully understand your concern with allowing children to have access to the internet because of all the adult content.  As a peace offering, we would like to offer your son a good research project to accompany his insect collection.  Knowing the identity of an insect might be the requirement, but doing an informative ecologically inspired paper just might earn some bonus points.  The Ailanthus Webworm Moth is alleged to be native, yet its food plant is a noxious introduced weed tree, ironically known as the Tree of Heaven, Ailanthus altissima.  The Tree of Heaven is recognized nationally as a major threat to native ecosystems.  It thrives in all climates from arid to wet and from tropical to cold and occasionally freezing.  We seem to remember hearing once that the range of the Ailanthus Webworm Moth has spread from Florida to a major portion of the U.S., though we might be wrong on that point.  BugGuide has awesome distribution maps like this Ailanthus Webworm map.
P.S.
We also have some strong views on insect collections as decorations, though we cannot deny their value as scientific research and learning tools.

And now, … The Homework Controversy
What kind of bug is this
Location: Burlington, North Carolina
April 10, 2011 7:48 pm
Good day folks,
My son is doing a project for his 4th grade science project. We are having trouble identifying this bug. I’ve looked in so many books and can’t find it. Can you help me?
Signature: Kim

ailanthus webworm kim 300x212 Ailanthus Webworm Moth identification request spawns homework controversy

Ailanthus Webworm Moth

Hi Kim,
We just finished sending you a quick response, and in hindsight, we decided to elaborate a bit and to create a posting for your email.  Typically, we refrain from responding to the desperate pleas we receive from college students, high school students, and the parents of grade school students needing numerous specimens identified immediately for an insect collection class project that is due in the imminent future.  The most popular posting on our site continues to be “What’s That Bug? will not do your child’s homework“.  Your email indicated that you have been attempting to ID this creature, and since there was only one requested ID, we lightened up on our stance.  This is an Ailanthus Webworm Moth and there are close to 100 images of this insect on our website.

Ed. Note: Here is our original “rude” response to Kim: Though we frown on doing homework, your letter indicates that you have been searching for a name.  This is an Ailanthus Webworm Moth.

Thank you for your response.  I will surely not bother you again.  If you ‘frown upon’ what you call “doing children’s homework” and answering these questions, then you shouldn’t allow a contact form for people TO ask the question.  When a parent or student (no matter what age he or she is) looks for something and you are a resource then you shouldn’t be replying in such a rude manner.  This is NOT at all professional.  I had three more bugs to ID and cannot find them on your website or any other website for that matter.  It is very frustrating for someone who is NOT an entomologist to look through hundreds of resources and references and come up empty.  Those of us who seek your professional assistance should not be answered with such rudeness.   I was going to make a substantial donation but because of your rude reply I will not.  I will also be telling the other mothers in my sons class NOT to seek out your assistance since it is such a bother for you.  I do appreciate the ID of this bug, thank you once again for your reply.

Kim,
With all due respect, we did not consider our response to be rude.  If that is your interpretation, you are more than entitled to have an opinion, just as you are free to choose not to ever again visit our website.  We thought we clarified our stance a bit with our second response to you.  For the record, there are no entomologists on our staff, nor does anyone on our staff have even the slightest background in entomology.  Research is research, and taking a science class should encourage research rather than to demand correct answers.  We cannot speak for you child’s instructor, but we imagine that merely attempting to find a correct answer is a valuable skill that all students need to learn.  That is a far greater benefit than having someone else, be it a parent or an online consultant, provide a correct identification for a child.  It is interesting that you write:  “
I had three more bugs to ID and cannot find them on your website or any other website for that matter.“  We thought this was your child’s homework assignment.  It is also interesting to us to learn that you will be telling the other mothers in your son’s class not to seek out our assistance.  Thanks for passing on that information because ethically, as college instructors, we continue to have major issues with the ownership of intellectual property.  At the end of the day, taking credit for work done by someone else, even a well intentioned parent, is cheating.  We can’t help but to wonder how the fourth grade students at your son’s school will benefit by having all of the mothers doing the internet research.  At least the mothers will be learning something, perhaps even the things they didn’t learn in school because their own parents did their homework for them.  Will you also be taking your child’s standardized tests?

There are other sites and other sources of reference to which we have been able to seek out and get our answers from.  You’re not the “only game in town” and you certainly don’t have such a great site.  The other parents and I have found several other sites for our children to utilize.  We have all been able to find the bugs identifications that we needed.
You shouldn’t assume that you would be doing a “child’s homework assignment” or that the child is cheating.  Learning how to answer questions with respect and tact is something you learn as you grow, perhaps you haven’t learned that yet.  Being a college professor you should have learned that lesson by now.
There was no ‘second e-mail’, but perhaps you should have contemplated an answer before hitting send.  It’s not right for you to assume that a child is cheating when a parent is merely HELPING their child when they are having trouble.  My child is an A student and has never once cheated a day in his life.  He is in no way taking credit for work that I am doing for him because I am not doing the work for him.  Cheating is cheating, but parental help is something entirely different.  The parents of my son’s school HELP their children with all research if it’s needed.  We closely monitor when our children do research on the internet.  Even WITH child filters on there’s a chance of something getting through.
If you are college professors you should be aware of how you are answering questions.  Just because you’re a college professor doesn’t mean you know it all.  I guess it’s true what they say about the smarter people not always having the most common sense.  I feel for the students that you teach!!  Hopefully they have common sense and have already learned how to answer questions with respect, tact and not assume things about people.  You’ve got a lot to learn about being respectful towards people.  You are not mightier because you are a professor, remember that!!  And as far as Standardized testing, he’s already taken it and is at the TOP of his class!!!!
Thank you again for your answer.  We will not be bothering you again.

A Reader Comments
I was just reading this conversation on your site and found it very interesting. I am about to graduate with my masters in library and information studies, and also have four children, three of whom are still in primary education.

I do bemoan the information literacy (or lack thereof) of kids these days, including my own, though I try to help them learn how to search and to vet what they find. You are right when you say that kids often don’t have any idea how to search the Internet for good information and they NEED to learn how to do this. I applaud you for this wonderful site, especially considering your non-entomological backgrounds. I also love how you’ve broken out the left hand index into further facets. It can be very difficult to search this particular kind of site because of the difficulty in indexing things that many users don’t even know how to “name” – either Latin or common.

I have to say I understand the parent’s frustration in helping a fourth grader try to find information on the Internet. If you leave it totally up to them, they often end up very frustrated. I have had to find a list of sites for my kids to use, just to narrow the field, of course explaining how I found and then chose those sites and why they are reliable sources of information. It is a learning experience and you have to sometimes hold their hand all the way down to the “item” level, especially at age 9 or 10. Time doesn’t always allow this (It’s due tomorrow and I haven’t started – time management lecture instead of info lecture here!). We don’t just let them flounder all over the Web and we help them when we can and hope they learn how to do it on their own next time. Again, “bugs” can be hard for us to find and ID online as we don’t even know how to name them or classify them into some sort of group to get going, so I have to say I understand a parent finally just drilling into your site to figure out what they heck they have.

Sorry for going on so long here, but it’s a fascinating topic. I love your website (used it as a model in one of my info studies classes) and thank you for all your hard work in making these resources available to the public. Users often don’t understand the work required to keep up a site like this and since you are providing it, they expect that you have to provide it, that you have a duty to provide it, even if it’s just something you love and there is no compulsion beyond that for continuing. I sense this is a labor of love rather than a means to that lovely vacation home or comfy retirement (ha!) and I recommend it to anyone and everyone I can.

That’s it – I love bugs, am fascinated by them if not sometimes a tiny bit freaked out by them. It’s a shame if that person disparages your site to other parents. It’s a fantastic source of information.  From the librarian point of view, have you ever considered adding any social interaction to the site, like tagging or commenting on posts? Any other sort of facets to make searching easier, like by colors, sizes, etc. – only in addition to what you already have set up. Don’t you love this kind of inquiry? Like you have the time to do this. But it’s such an awesome agglomeration of good information. Making it more searchable would open up the content even more.

Thanks for reading this far, if indeed you have.
Ann Graf

Hi Ann,
Thanks for your comment, which alas we are unable to address fully at the moment since we need to leave for work.  We do have a comment option on posts and our search engine works magnificently.  Our tiny staff frequently uses our own site to locate previous postings of certain insects and that would be impossible in our vast and confusing archives were it not for the search engine.
P.S.  We are also a bit sad that Kim hasn’t written back to accept our apology.

9

What's That Bug? does not endorse extermination

Bagworm Moth lays eggs in Australia

unusual bug
Location: eastern suburbs Sydney
April 9, 2011 2:27 am
I came across this bug in my backyard 9/4/11. It’s about 8mm in body length.
Second image the next day after being kept under a glass. What looks like thousend of eggs!
Signature: Heinz57

unknown moth australia heinz57 300x257 Bagworm Moth lays eggs in Australia

Unknown Moth

Dear Heinz57,
This is a Moth, though we haven’t been able to come up with a conclusive identification.  We also don’t know if her wings failed to expand after metamorphosis, or if this is a flightless species with vestigial wings.  Many female Tussock Moths are flightless, and the markings on your specimen match those of
Oligeria hemicalla pictured on the ButterflyHouse website, but we are unable to locate an image of a female moth.  The Painted Apple Moth is an example of a Tussock Moth in the family Lymantriidae that has a wingless female.  The photos on Wikipedia indicate that it is not your species, though the eggs look quite similar.  Perhaps one of our readers will be able to supply an identification.

unknown moth eggs australia heinz57 300x220 Bagworm Moth lays eggs in Australia

Unknown Moth lays eggs

Karl provides an identification
Unknown flightless moth lays eggs in Australia
Hi Daniel and Heinz57:
The looks like a female Australian Bagmoth, Cebysa leucotelus (Psychidae). It is native to southern Australia and has recently shown up in New Zealand. Apparently the larvae feed on lichens growing on tree trunks, rocks, etc. and the lichen fragments get incorporated into the larval cases, or ‘bags’. Only the females are flightless. Regards. Karl

Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History Guide to Bugs

Permission to use images
Location: Santa Barbara CA
April 8, 2011 4:20 pm
Hi Bugman!
I am with the Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History. We are writing a kid’s guide to Santa Barbara ”bugs” that will be available from our website as a free pdf. This will never be sold. We are trying to encourage young kids to get outside, explore, and learn about the natural world. Several of our guides are already available at http://www.sbnature.org/exhibitions/556.html. You would be given credit for the images with links to your web site.
Thank you,
Elaine Gibson
Nature Education Specialist
Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History
Signature: Gratefully yours,

painted arachnis elaine 268x300 Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History Guide to Bugs

Painted Arachnis

Hi Elaine,
What’s That Bug? will gladly allow you to use images from our archives for your free instructional and educational brochure.  Once you select the images you would like, please include a comment to the posting requesting permission.  We ask this because though we copyright our website content, the copyright to the images themselves belong to the photographers.  We reserve the right to post these submitted images on our website, in other What’s That Bug? publications, and to also authorize their use for educational and nonprofit projects.  As a courtesy, we would like to inform the photographers that their images are being used for these purposes, hence our request that your post the comments.

What's That Bug? does not endorse extermination

Metamorphosis of a Polyphemus Moth

Polyphemus inflates his wings
Location: S. Illinois
April 7, 2011 7:55 pm
Found this Polyphemus as a cocoon in a tree nursery last fall. He hatched out this afternoon, here he is at emergence plus 5 minutes, and plus 4 hours.
We’ll release him in the woods tomorrow at dusk.
Signature: Bert

polyphemus emergent bert 300x289 Metamorphosis of a Polyphemus Moth

Polyphemus Moth newly metamorphosed

Hi Bert,
Thanks so much for sending in your photos of a newly emergent Polyphemus Moth.

polyphemus bert 300x175 Metamorphosis of a Polyphemus Moth

Polyphemus Moth

Hummingbird Clearwing Moth

Moth?
Location: Northern Virginia
April 5, 2011 12:15 pm
I took this photo last year in the Leesburg area of Virginia.
What I found odd about this ”bug” is that it flew like a humming bird. Very fast wings and it would hover over flowers and drink from them.
Can you tell me what this is?
Signature: AZ

hummingbird clearwing az 300x220 Hummingbird Clearwing Moth

Hummingbird Clearwing Moth

Hi AZ,
This is a Hummingbird Clearwing, one of several diurnal Sphinx Moths that are often confused for hummingbirds.  You can see the Sphingidae of the Americas website for additional information.

Eight Spotted Forrester

Butterfly/Moth
Location: Zwolle, LA
April 4, 2011 7:16 pm
Hello,
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I was camping this past weekend (april 1-2) in Toledo Bend State Park in Zwolle, LA. My 4 yr old daughter coaxed a butterfly (or moth) onto her hand. He stayed there for several minutes which we found unusual and crawled all over her. My friend and I became concerned when we noticed that the butterfly had orange ”pods” on it’s legs. I apologize that the pics are not the best but, the focus of my shots at the time were my daughter. Could you please tell us the species of this butterfly and if we should have been concerned that it was crawling on her? Thank you again.
Signature: Thank you, Meghan

8 spotted forrester meghan 300x217 Eight Spotted Forrester

Eight Spotted Forrester

Hi Meghan,
The diurnal moth, and Eight Spotted Forrester, will not harm your daughter.

Daniel,
Thank you so much for responding to me.  I had no idea that a website like yours existed.  I have learned a great deal, just in the reading I did yesterday.  I find that I am going to have to revise my bug rules.  The rule I have taught my daughter is that under no circumstances is she to kill a bug outside…that is their home.  Unfortunately, inside our home, all bets were off.  I have learned that quite a few bugs are very useful and from now on, I will make every attempt to relocate any bugs outside.  Just so you know, this moth did not become unnecessary carnage, although we were admittedly freaked out by it’s legs.  We coaxed it onto a branch and gently laid the branch on the ground (away from rambunctious kids).
Thanks again for your time,
Meghan

Cecropia Moth lays eggs on Bicycle Tire!!!

Butterfly or Moth
Location: Pensacola, FL
April 4, 2011 11:40 am
My fiance and I were getting ready to go on a bike ride last weekend and we came across this. Can you tell me if this is a butterfy or a moth? It appears to be laying eggs on my fiance’s bicycle tire.
Thanks!
Signature: E

cecropia eggs bicycle 300x204 Cecropia Moth lays eggs on Bicycle Tire!!!

Cecropia Moth laying eggs

Dear E,
This beauty is the largest Silkmoth in North America, the Cecropia Moth.  We would love to know that the Eggs survived, and we hope your fiance does not need to ride before the eggs hatch.  We expect that hatching should occur within a week.  According to BugGuide:
“Larvae feed on leaves of various trees and shrubs including alder, apple, ash, beech, birch, box-elder, cherry, dogwood, elm, gooseberry, maple, plum, poplar, white oak, willow. may also feed on lilac and tamarack” which means you shouldn’t have too much difficulty relocating the tiny caterpillars to a food source once they hatch.

Thank you!! We cancelled our bike ride for the sake of the moth and the eggs. We haven’t been out bike riding since. I’ll have to check and see if the eggs are still there. I appreciate you writing back.
Erin R. Hall

5

Spotted Oleander Caterpillar Moth

Flying insect that just hatched from a cocoon
Location: Florida
April 3, 2011 4:12 pm
Hi Bugman,
I just discovered an insect hatched from a cocoon on my porch. Unfortunately, it’s a screened porch so I am unsure how it got in in the first place and it’s now trapped in there as there is no door to leave (second floor porch.) So, I’m anxious to know what it is, to know if it’s safe to remove it by moving it myself. The bug is located in Florida, the season is spring. It’s about an inch and a half long. I have included a photo of the insect and it’s cocoon. Thanks for reading!
Signature: Mary

spotted oleander caterpillar moth mary 300x225 Spotted Oleander Caterpillar Moth

Spotted Oleander Caterpillar Moth

Hi Mary,
You probably have an oleander plant growing near your porch because this wasp mimic is a Spotted Oleander Caterpillar Moth,
Empyreuma affinis, a species believed to have been introduced to Florida from the Caribbean region.  Its caterpillar, like many caterpillars, travels from the food plant when searching for a place to pupate.  There is a comprehensive description of the Spotted Oleander Caterpillar Moth on the University of Florida Featured Creatures section.


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